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I feel like i'm the last generation. i was actually bussed to a magnet school in chicago from the south side to the north side literally of the city, and it was -- it was, you know, for so many of us, it was transformational in terms of our life trajectories and mobility. here's the thing, nobody under 40 actually knows what that means. like what does busing mean? what does voluntary or forced or mandated desegregation mean? so it's interesting that it's now back center, right in the center of the democratic debate. >> it's fascinating. >> is it, i think, about -- and amy said this. this is ho...

Racial justice, including busing. i never, never, never, ever opposed voluntary busing, and as a program that senator harris participated in and made a difference in her life. >> joining me now for more on the first round democratic debate, howard dean, former dnc chair and a 2004 democratic presidential candidate, amy allen president of she the people and dorian warren president of the national community organizing group community change. amy, let me start with you. there's two levels i want to talk about this on, and we'll start with the kind of performance level for lack of a better word, j...

Said yesterday. >> we all know that 30 seconds to 60 seconds on a campaign debate exchange can't do justice to a lifetime committed to civil rights. i want to be absolutely clear about my record and position on racial justice, including busing. i never, ever, ever opposed voluntary busing. >> okay, cut to a few minutes later when he had this comment which drew criticism, and this time the criticism came from senator cory booker. here it is. >> we have to recognize that kid wearing a hoodie may very well be the next poet laureate and not a gangbanger. >> what you make of this and how he might g...

About my record and position on racial justice including busing. i never, never, any, ever opposed voluntary busing. >> reporter: but the issue wasn't voluntary busing. it is the federal government stepping in to desegregate schools which biden repeatedly opposed. >> the one way to push civil rights in america further back is to promote busing because it's a bankrupt policy. >> reporter: in 2019, the policy isn't really about busing but a conversation about democrats and whether biden fits the moment as the party increasingly shifts to the left. the post-debate spotlight would have shined even...

Mills here with me. how did they not know? here's joe biden's defense, by the way. take a listen. >> we all know that 30 seconds to 60 seconds on a cam bane debad -- campaign debate exchange can't do justice to a lifetime commitment to civil rights. i want to be absolutely clear about my record and position on racial justice including busing. i never, never, never, ever opposed voluntary busing. i fought my heart out to ensure that civil rights and voting rights, equal rights are enforced everywhere. >> joe biden there reading from the teleprompter. what do you make of his comments and his rec...