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Committed to civil rights. i want to be absolutely clear about my record and position on racial justice, including busing. i never, never, never, ever opposed voluntary busing. >> jeff, how worried is the biden campaign about this? this is a story that has been going on since the debate. what's your sense of how they're seen and whether they are afraid of blowback, particularly from african-american voters? >> the biden campaign right now i think realizes that this presidential campaign is not going to be won or lost on busing. i think the bigger challenge is, is this an example of something w...

That but you also worked with them to oppose busing, and you know, there was a little girl in california who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bussed to school every day. that little girl was me, so i will tell you that on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among democrats. we have to take it seriously. do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose busing in america then? do you agree? >> i did not oppose busing in america. what i opposed is busing ordered by the department of education. that's what i opposed. >> well, there's a failure...

>> that's my point. my only point is it is easier to level a critique of a white democratic politician in 1976, 1977 being against busing which, to be clear substantively morally wrong in my view, but politically the correct view in terms of the majority of his white voters, the majority of the voters in delaware. it's easier to level that critique than to affirmatively say in 2019 we should have federally mandated desegregation plans that involve busing kids. >> you know, joe biden sent out a message to his list that said, look my -- the talk about race shouldn't be about the past. let's forg...

Busing, the busing i never -- you would have been able to go to school the same exact way because it was a local decision made by your city council. that's fine. that's one of the things i argued for, that we should not be -- we should be breaking down these lines. >> vice president biden, do you agree today, do you agree today that you were wrong to oppose busing in america then? do you agree? >> i did not oppose busing in america. what i opposed is busing ordered by the department of education. that's what i opposed. i did not oppose -- >> well there's a failure of states to integrate public...

Southern democrats who are notorious segregationist senators. >> i'm going to direct this at vice president biden. i do not believe you are a racist, and i agree with you when you commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground, but i also believe -- and it's personal, and i was actually very -- it was hurtful -- to hear you talk about the reputations of two united states senators who built their reputations and career on the segregation of race in this country. and it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing, and you know, there was a little girl in califor...