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Election day and that was the period in which this catch and kill scheme was pursued aggressively at donald trump's direction. it's clear that a lot of these witnesses were made available. why do you think we didn't -- when there was a change in administration hear anything about this case being re-examined? >> you know, that remains a question that -- there's a lot of speculation about, and i can't answer, and i don't know whether any of it had to do by the time we had a change in administration, we also had the january 6th insurrection, the justice department focusing, you know, huge amounts...

Let me raise two points. first, as to the commentary by doj, remember part an parcel what mary was just citing, when you decide not to bring a case, you don't talk remember who did talk? james comey. it is prejudicial to defendants and it's a good reason for it. let me just say, i wasn't there, nicolle -- >> let's talk about comey, though that's a great parallel. comey would say that he talked about it because there was a national interest. don't you think -- >> he said he was wrong and he dirtied up the process >> are we worry about dirtying up donald trump? >> it's not something that merrick...

Or attempts to pay them off, that could have been all the more damaging. this effort to influence elections started before 2016. it continued to 2020 it's continuing today. and it's going to continue into the 2024 lelection we have to be vigilant and talk about those efforts. and hopefully he will be held accountable. not just for this but so many other things that are being investigated right now >> mary, i don't mean to defend or explain away doj's actions, but you are probably the most senior former department official we have been given access to. your framing and pointing us accurately to...

More interesting. the insurrection case is really, really interesting and significant because not only is it a very significant case on the merits because of what happened that day, but you also have the overlay of cases in georgia, which is looking at the same thing. and the evidence converges around that character of jeffrey clark who was operating in the department of justice apparently on behalf of trump, becoming trump's attorney general, if you can believe it, by interfering more in the georgia election. so it just really gets interesting is if the jack smith investigation and the fani w...

It's aiding an insurrection, obstructing an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the united states and conspiracy to make false statements. norm, which of these would be easiest to prove and which is the hardest? >> the 1512c charge is relatively discreet. you can focus on what trump did on the day of january 6th. he clearly knew he was throwing a spanner in the work in congress. he knew that mob he was addressing on the ellipse included armed individuals. he want the to go with them. he sicced the mob on mike pence. he did nothing for three hours to stop it. he said words of love to the...