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Individual against them. this is not necessarily that really existed. it could be that the russians were bragging knowing that they were being listened to and was part of a disinformation campaign, but the end of the day this is something that investigators are looking hat. >> the because you know, phil mudd, whenever the u.s. does pick up a conversation like this, they have to make sure that it's the real thing, that it wasn't just phony trying to it, you know, screw around, knowing that the u.s. was listening in. >> you nailed, that wolf. look, handle with care. any fbi investigators got to ...

Lawyers, but just from a practitioner's standpoint in the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> let me go through the issue that's been the bombshell this weekend, the issue that jared kushner, a private citizen, a private adviser at the time to the president-elect was having these meetings with the ambassador to russia, sergei kislyak. and they hid these meetings from the public eye. we also learned that he met with the head of a russian sanctioned bank. you were still the director of intelligence in december. are these things that you would have known? >> yes, they would have, and just to...

Lawyers but just on the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> let me go through the issue that has been the bomb shell this weekend, this issue that jared kushner, a private citizen, a private adviser to, at the time, the president-elect, was having these meetings with the ambassador to russia and they h hid these meetings from the public eye. we also learned that he met with the head of a sanctioned russian bank. you were still the director of national intelligence in december. are these things you would have known? >> yes, they would have and to reenforce john brennan's comments before th...

Relationships with crucial partners, you know, u.k. and israel come to mind, and this is particularly serious now because in my experience 50 plus years in intelligence, i know over time when we depended more on friends and allies for sharing information and intelligence, particularly with respect to terrorism, so i know secretary kelly takes -- you know, takes this quite seriously and he should. legal definition on what's treason, i'll leave that to the lawyers but just on the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> let me go through the issue that has been the bomb shell this weekend, this ...

Crucial partners. you know, uk and israel come to mind. and this is particularly serious now because in my experience, 50-plus years in intelligence, i know over time when we depended more on friends and allies for sharing information and intelligence, particularly with respect to terrorism, so i know secretary kelly takes -- takes this quite seriously and he should. you know, legal definition of what's treason, i'll leave that to the lawyers, but just from a practitioner standpoint in the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> all right. let me go through the issue that has been the bombshe...