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Warnings, without telling him he had a right to a lawyer. once you get a lawyer in the picture, and they are very capable, well-trained lawyers. they are in federal court all the time. that's certainly going to stop any interrogation, any further inquiry with respect to whether he had other individuals he was working with or how he got the bomb materials. so the moment a lawyer enters the proceedings, that's going to put a stop on interrogation efforts. and of course, the lawyer will appear with him at arraignment either in the hospital or by video conference or by appearance in federal or sta...

Doesn't work, we got violent information that lead us to bin laden. also it came from an overseas prison where he was being intirr gated. waterboarding. it was determined through waterboarding -- >> so ksm gave it up? ksn? >> he gave us our first lead and also a top aid to bin laden, he was also being interrogated with strong interrogation efforts. >> top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mark halperin still with us. joining the table now, nbc news with tom brokaw. we also have democratic former senator of nebraska and commissioner from the 9/11 commission bob cary. >> senator cary, ...

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To get bin laden. >> absolutely. >> but i contend, as do many former cia officials and secretaries of state -- i'm sorry, secretaries of defense, that without rendition, black sites, without gitmo, withouten hanged interrogation, we had jose rodriguez on this very program, he was leading the interrogation efforts against mohamed and others. we wouldn't is gotten bin laden, we wouldn't have had the opportunity or the intelligence. in other words, if obama had his way he never would have been able to make that decision that he's now out on the campaign trail bragging about. true or false? >> nor...