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And adversarial relationships in life? what was its role if not to get information? >> oh, unfortunately the sad truth of torture, it's ostensible justification is to get information. it's actual use is to brutalize, to dehumanize, to demonstrate your superiority, to demean the other. that's a much more potent use through time. and if you look at what was done in this case, we have rectal examinations with excessive force. i mean, this is not an interrogation technique. this is a brutalization technique. this isn't about getting information. this is about demonstrating your actually visceral s...

And if you look at what was done in this case, we have rectal examinations with excessive force. i mean, this is not an interrogation technique. this is a brutalization technique. this isn't about getting information. this is about demonstrating your actually visceral superiority over these people and treating them like animals. that's the real danger. >> do you think, is it sadism? >> no, i don't want to say what's sadism. it was a horrible moment in american history. and i am opposed to prosecutions. let me just make that clear. i think we should just have complete transparency. bring all th...

He was the white house counsel, he authorized it with john rizzo. he says when he saw some of the stuff in here, he was stunned by some of the stuff that was going on that he didn't know about. he knew about the waterboarding, the sleep deprivation, but not some of the other torture. >> the one you focused on was the rectal rehydration. he didn't know it was going on because it was not an interrogation technique. what stunned me about the report most was the fact that it was written in the way it was written. it is an unrelenting prosecutorial document with no since of emilration in the langua...

I want to bring in ayman mohyeldin right now. let's talk about more about what is going on in the report. what is not going to be in the report as well. we're talking about 400 pages, 450 pages as an executive summary a great deal of information has been redacted. what has been redacted? what are we not going to learn? >> well, i think the theme of what has been redacted is snig that jeopardize operational security, the naming of individuals, perhaps those that operatives or individuals who may have been involved in the interrogation technique. i think you're going to see anything that could c...

Him. >> it's better than sending him to saudi arabia to torture chambers that are notorious. >> i'm talking about the gitmo enhanced interrogation technique that the cia used to get intel to keep the country safer. you think that was worse than taking the same people, and instead of bringing them back, just kill them. >> certain people, you're not going to be able to get. >> yes or no? >> all right, you know who started the rendition on the black side? bill clinton and al gore. you know what obama did? he carved out an exemption which allows him to water board terrorists in a ticking time bomb...