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CNNW The July 4, 2024

2 1 2 years after a mob of his supporters attacked the u. S. Capitol, donald j. Trump has been charged in the effort to overturn the election he lost which culminated in such violence to people, property and democracy that day. If you are just joining us, im here in new york alongside jake tapper In Washington and Kaitlin Collins outside the d. C. Federal courthouse where the former president will be arraigned thursday afternoon. Anderson, we just heard from the d. C. Metro police, the department saying they are working with federal Law Enforcement in preparation for the arraignment on thursday. As for Special Counsel jack smith from whom we last heard after the first of now two federal indictments in the documents case, he spoke again briefly this evening. Take a ....

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CNN The Source With Kaitlan Collins June 4, 2024 01:09:00

Over that. we have the discussion but it matters if those things actually occurred or not, john. not under the first it matters not at all fraud no, the first amendment let me stop you there. if he s saying that there were fraud, the first amendment doesn t allow the president of the united states to go and claim there was fraud when he was told there was no fraud and then try to subvert the election by overturning legitimate electors. i mean, it says it right here in the actual indictment absolutely, the first amendment protects all speech. if we re going to have i if we have a situation where they indict politicians for political speech and whether or not they re factually accurate then this country will shut down politically, because it s a never ending cycle of tit for tat and that s the risk of injecting politics into the criminal justice system. so right now people disagree with president trump. what s going to happen four years from now if somebody ....

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CNN The Source With Kaitlan Collins June 4, 2024 01:10:00

Disagrees with president biden in terms of what he said during the election? that s why we don t criminalize political speech. political speech under the first amendment has an almost absolute protection. nobody gets to judge whether it s true or not except the american people and we do that in an election. we do that in an election and in the case of a president by impeachment but we don t indict people for speech. john, i got to stop you there. but trump is not being indicted for lying here. he is being indicted for using unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and trying to subvert the election results. well, what s the unlawful means? there was an effort to get alternate electors. that he was trying to overturn yes, fake electors who were not legitimate. that was used in 1960 by john kennedy, and it was a protocol that constitutionally accepted, so there s nothing wrong about that, in fact, in the indictment itself it doesn t allege that there was anything wrong. a ....

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CNN The Source With Kaitlan Collins June 4, 2024 01:24:00

Interviewed him and talked to him some months ago about the scheme put forward by jeffrey clark who is mentioned as co-conspirator number four. in which he was trying to get donoghue and the acting attorney general jeffrey rosen to write letters to state, specifically georgia, but also others, saying that lying that there were that the justice department had identified serious problems with the election and i asked donoghue go that. let s roll that clip if we can. that a letter claimed that the u.s. department of justice s investigations have, quote, identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states including the state of georgia, unquote. was that true? no. it would have created chaos in the states. i think that would have been disastrous for our country and constitution. wasn t that the point of that, to create that chaos? i think so, yes. so this isn t a first ....

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CNN The Source With Kaitlan Collins June 4, 2024 01:15:00

All the way out to the margins is fraud. now, lying itself is usually protected by the first amendment but lying to steal something, that is criminal and that is fraud and the theory made in this indictment is that he lied in order to steal the election. there s also factual problems. one being a lot of these statements in the indictment were not made behind a podium or not made to the media. they were made by donald trump and others behind the scenes to try to influence people and so there s much less of a first amendment concern there but i think that s a really fascinating insight into the way they intend to defend the case. i think what we just heard is a preview of the defense that they re going to be making up until the trial if there is a trial and at trial and really try to relitigate also whether or not the election was stolen which i find remarkable. there are have been finding after finding after finding that there was no election fraud by courts and yet the defense will b ....

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