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What you're saying isn't true. you know, it's hurting -- it could potentially hurt the credibility of what may be a very important witness if you start getting into this twitter-fest about what someone did or didn't say and what someone is or isn't doing. cooperation is meant to be a confidential process. even if someone isn't cooperating proactively. so i know at least, you know, cohen's attorney is probably counseling cohen to not do this, especially given the attorney that he now has, guy petrillo, former prosecutor. i know him. you know, a very honorable, good lawyer, upstanding person, we...

About what he's doing with the government. but it doesn't answer the question that lawrence had asked, which is, is he cooperating with the government, right? so, you know, there's a lot of sort of -- it's good tv. there's a lot of different things that arnold has said. one thing i know for sure, and this is not the point of what he's saying. but i know for sure that cohen's new lawyer, guy petrillo, and the prosecutors and the fbi do not want tom arnold out there doing what he's doing right now, okay? because if michael cohen is headed in the direction of cooperating with them, they don't wan...

Deterrent, was that a part of the calculation and the conversation that you had? >> no amount of deterrent will stop people from fleeing a burning building and that's what they're doing in central, in, they're fleeing violence, and poverty and the push factors that are driving america in the first place and we did do a matter of deterrence in 2013 when we saw an influx of kids crossing the border unaccompanied. we put families in detention, in family residential centers while they went through their immigration proceedings and we didn't separate them. so what the trump administration isn't doi...

That's what we're seeing in that clip. >> he's got to have a sense of humor. >> yes, there you go. one round won by you. but, jesse, on this very point, i'm out. i'm officially out. the poll numbers, i want you to look at the poll numbers now. he's at 44% approval, that's up 4% from -- that's up four points from april. among republicans he's at 84%. that's about as high as i think about as high as he's had since -- in the entirety of his tenure. what are people pointing to? the economy. whatever he does or doesn't know about history, whatever he is or isn't doing, look -- >> he does an excelle...

Inside the legal system? >> it really doesn't help the president. and although i'm sure giuliani thought he had a strategy last night when he went on television, it's real hard to discern today what that strategy was and how it helped the president. giuliani seems to play the role of almost comfort food. i guess he's the attorney version of comfort food for the president here. someone who is consistent with how the president likes to babe, someone who is consistent with his style. but who isn't doing a lot to help his defense here. >> what about the initial thing of trying to get him off the c...