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Government functions? >> yeah, whether it was schools or health care or help for the elderly or sick, a panoply of services that we tend to associate now with government. john: and while the good things were happening in america, in europe religion declined? >> yeah the monopoly religions were not adapting to society changes in technology. john: they didn't have to because the state supported them. >> exactly right. john: and the other was increasingly the growing welfare state crowded functions right out. in fact some of them sold off their hospitals, their schools, their old age homes, to th...

Education and whatever he normally wants more government. but he's right that religion did better here because government threat alone. an economist at chapman university studies religion and explained this to me. explain it to the audience. >> well religion is a market phenomenon like other once, and when you make the government the arbiter the funder of religion, it operates like a typical lazy monopoly and incentives are lost, the clergy are focused on pleasing the politicians rather than the people. >> the church of england and they have no competition, they want to suck up to the king. >>...

Churches don't because they're churches. that's religious incrimination. john: favoring big government. >> not true at all, they don't because government shall make no law towards establishment or religion. >> irs tax code differentiates between secular and religious organizations. >> you made this exact claim in a federal lawsuit and you lost. >> you are avoiding my question. >> flat-out avoiding the question. john: we are out of time. thank you, david harry. coming up, the surprising result when government neglected religion. turned out to be good news for religious people. ttlwhun+]wúa"l4m...

>> once you take god and morals out of the equation, the sky is the equation. >> once you take god out of equation, everybody is free to make their own decisions. the question is do we want a nation that picks and chooses who gets more rights than others or do we want a nation of equals? my opponent here wants a nation of equals. john: you are objecting to the crosses which are harmless of the 10 commandments getting in everybody's race your rights are not threatened. >> it is a step away from religious freedom step away from religious equality and a step toward theocracy. john: how? when? >> ...

Win, you lose. >> you can revise history to the fact is our founders were not afraid to acknowledge god and did that in our founding documents. the declaration of independence says we are endowed by the creator with unalienable rights. >> the founding fathers were diverse. >> they weren't afraid to acknowledge god and they did. >> they acknowledged him. some throughout our history has been a nation that blessed god. john: lincoln and jefferson were not religious. >> neither was thomas payne patrick henry was. they got together christians and the rest of them got together and put together a sec...