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The country that close to default for the first time in our history. that's going to cause interest rates across the board to go up. it's going to cause not just pain in this country but pain globally. >> jonah question for you. >> i agree. ultimately boehner has to relent. the question is how do we get him to relent. to do that we have to understand him. is he like a teacher whose classroom has overrun him, we have to help him get control back or is he suffering from some kind of stockholm syndrome where he believes it himself. >> i'm not really a pop psychologist but it feels like the latter...

Trajectory. positive positive. the idea you need to strap the suicide vest to your chest to get the other side to pay attention to you is clearly not warranted by what's going on. so the question is why are they doing it? >> congressman, i want to ask you, too, about nbc news had the whip count of 22 republicans who said they would vote for a clean bill of funding. we're talking about the cr and not debt ceiling. i asked you as deputy whip, moderates, moderates in back rooms, moderates out there who would join with democrats and end a government shutdown and pass a clean bill of funding, do yo...

Important and interesting point. a great expression of what we deem is important and not. while i absolutely think the department of defense is important, the fact that 300,000 plus employees are now returned to work does beg the question, what about the other employees and aren't they essential, too? >> that's exactly right. part of the political problem here, i think for democrats, for progressiv progressives, president of the united states, the way they are shut down actually incentivizes the republican party to shut down. they know the industrial complex which they are big supporters of fi...

Is raised. congressman, my fundamental question is this. if both republicans and democrats feel like and agree it is a bad idea to not raise the debt ceiling then how is it a concession to raise the debt ceiling? >> simply it's the trigger mechanissm for the discussion. the president hasn't told us. we're ten days out. he's not put proposal on the table what to do so congress can figure it out. really? executive branch absent from the discussion when they are who actually spends the money. we should sit down. the president has actually got proposals in his own budget i would support. they are ...

Of the political constellation in washington could threaten, could strap a bomb to their chest and threaten to blow up the u.s. economy unless they got their way. i think he came committed. he's been saying this six or eight months. he will not negotiate over the debt limit nor should he. >> i want to bring in the panel here. the government shutdown is one piece, the debt ceiling seems to be another. as joy pointed out in the last segment there's now equivocation in republican circles, maybe not that bad, debt ceiling breach is not as bad as default, we have different ideas and opinions around...