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Right. we were trying to very intentionally make it about her and her ideas, and similarly, you know, i had this idea that if jeb ran he'd have to be like sort of just jeb and try to step away from bush. again, just so that people would see him for his own man. >> well, i think that's been written about both of them, hasn't it? john, step away from the bush, step away from the clinton. >> yeah. >> is that a problem for either or both? >> well, it's both a problem and an opportunity. >> yeah. >> obviously if you have the last name, you have a huge financial network. you have people that have he...

He's demonstrated the ability to work both sides of the aisle. more recently, he worked with reverend al sharpton on the issue of education, how we better educate america's kids. so newt's testing the waters and his bid for the white house could be very interesting. >> karen -- >> joe? >> if it's not newt, and we've got to go on this one, who's the dark horse here, karen? >> you know, i, frankly, still think jeb bush could get in. i know everyone thinks i'm crazy when i say that, but i see a campaign of just jeb. i think he can unify a party in the way they need. newt gingrich is a very polari...