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Of people in the courts seeking to live out their own life and because they refuse to embrace a form of marriage that they personally don't believe in because their religion, they have the teeth of the law into them right now. >> congressman, can you respond? >> i don't insist that every clergyman or clergy or any person of the clergy should be forced to agree with the marn dhoeptz approve of. there are alternatives for same-sex couples to find those services. i'm really troubled by the idea that businesses should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of who people are. >> that makes ken's p...

These could be signs of rare but serious side effects. is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. we're live. welcome back. continuing our debate now this evening on the implications of the supreme court's two historic decisions on gay marriage, one avoiding doma and the second, giving a green light to gay marriages in california. on your left, that is ken klukowski, the director of religious liberty at the family research council. on the right, congressman mark takano, the democrat of...

Responsibility to defend the liberties of individuals even though the people through an initiative process or legislature may decide to impinge upon those liberties. the courts have a duty to say wait a minute. the constitution gives everybody certain liberties, certain liberties that really are fundamental to who people are. >> ken, why do we care who congressman marries? >> the reality is that as justice kennedy recognized in the majority doma opinion this week, the states are still sovereign, to define for themselves what marriages are recognized within that state, whether it is traditional...

You say that common sense has come out of the closet with these supreme court decisions. what do you mean? >> well, what i mean by that is that most americans have come to recognize in their hearts and in their minds that same-sex couples should enjoy equality and should have their relationships recognized and respected in the eyes of their government. >> so, ken, where is the congressman wrong? >> well, to borrow the congressman's phrase, it's not the role of the courts to decide what is common sense or fair. that's a judgment for the legislature. the constitution gives us a system of limited...

Question and "slate" magazine endorsed it. it is a real issue and growing issue. the bottom line is the congressman and i on the subject of marriage equality, we draw the line somewhere. we're just drawing it in different places. >> but why would it impact anyone who doesn't want to marry someone of the same sex? i mean if you have a religion, ken, that says you have to marry a woman and god bless you. if you have a religion or if your own personal beliefs can you marry another person of your same sex, then god bless you, too. why should i care? >> well, an example would be in washington state...