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That just leads to this discussion. i know there are a lot of important discussions going on about how you get to a middle ground, but you cannot take politics out of the equation, because politics is what this is all about. >> david, does having that political argument really solve the nation's deficit problem, the budget problem? does demagoguing them on medicare, it works politically, but does it work for getting stuff done? >> it doesn't -- i think because the politics of the 2012 were so ever present in all this, i think it's chances that we will not get entitlement reform and we won't ge...

>> david, does having that political argument really solve the nation's deficit problem, the budget problem? does demagoguing them on medicare, it works politically perhaps, but does it work for getting stuff done? >> it doesn't -- i think because the politics of the 2012 were so ever present in all this, i think the chances have gone high now that we will not get entitlement reform and we won't get a serious reform of taxes until after the 2012 election. to me the question is, are we going to find ways to extend the debt ceiling and get a budget for 2012? are there more modest compromises tha...

The kind fareed is talking about? can you find some middle ground? there's such a wide gulf on taxes and medicare, anderson, i don't see that being resolved before the 2012 election. >> do you agree with that? >> i wonder. i agree with what david is saying in principle, except for this. on taxes, in the republican party continues to take an absolutely theological position that you simply cannot have any tax increases, and if we mean no elimination of loopholes and deductions, the math doesn't work. we're taking in 18% of gdp at taxation and spending 23%. you've got to close that gap. do we ing...

>> david, does having that political argument really solve the nation's deficit problem, the budget problem? does demagoguing them on medicare, it works politically perhaps, but does it work for getting stuff done? >> it doesn't -- i think because the politics of the 2012 were so ever present in all this, i think the chances have gone high now that we will not get entitlement reform and we won't get a serious reform of taxes until after the 2012 election. to me the question is, are we going to find ways to extend the debt ceiling and get a budget for 2012? are there more modest compromises tha...