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Doubt or even fraudulently reverse the results of the election, then there is the possibility of criminal behavior here. federally we would call this an investigation into what's known as a kline conspiracy. that is a conspiracy to obstruct the fair administration of an agency of the government. and so to try to get the justice department to do something that is illegal would itself be a crime. and so i could imagine that all of this could be rolled up into the same investigation as an effort to thwart the results of the 2020 election. >> barbara, i just quickly want you to weigh in on this sw...

The same political messages, manufacturing and using the same words and echo chamber, repeat the same talking points and tonight, it is on display more than ever after the leak of recent "new york times" employee town call -- town hall. the leadership came clean about how anti-trump their agenda really is. all of this breathless hysteria and all that they preview come all the conspiracy theories they pushed, all fake news narrativee up next. like i said, journalism has been buried since 2007. i said on this program. their credibility is in crisis. they don't really have any credibility and esp...

Ahead and do this. and if i were manafort's attorney and i was going to trial, i'd have a field day using that in my cross examination of gates. he's clearly a reluctant pleader. if i could go back for a second to this idea of collusion. i think several people have said on your show before, as we know there's no federal crime of collusion. in mueller's investigation, what do we mean when we say collusion? we mean conspiracy. either conspiracy to hack people's computers or conspiracy with the russians to get benefit and aid from the russians in some way in the election, or conspiracy to defraud...

Against the united states. which is both an incredibly sort of striking charge to see a senior presidential campaign aide plead to. but also now that bob mueller has established a conspiracy, what that means is that he can charge others who abetted it, knew about it, and didn't say anything. so that sort of opens up a possibility that we might see other people brought to charges under this same conspiracy. >> solomon, did you want to respond to that? >> i just think it's all of this speculation about it being a big deal is just guess work at this point. yes, it's obviously significant that gat...

We mean conspiracy. either conspiracy to hack people's computers or conspiracy with the russians to get benefit and aid from the russians in some way in the election, or conspiracy to defraud the united states. i don't consider those nebulous. they're pretty discreet statutes. >> wasn't there a conspiracy to defraud the united states in the documents today? wasn't that one of the charges? >> yeah, but it has nothing to do -- it has absolutely nothing to do with the election. that's what's called a kline conspiracy. it's part of -- >> solomon, with all due respect, the mueller investigation is ...