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Not the audience he's looking out at at the moment. what is the audience he perceives in his head. he showed since the start of his campaign to really be in touch with certain populists that others didn't have anything in common. one thing you find is americans think we waste a ton of money on is foreign aid. they have this idea that we are spending way too much money overseas. we're spending way too much money into bloated bureaucracies. >> it is less than 2% of our budget. >> this is a very strong feeling. so now here is donald trump i think playing to that kind of sent ment asent. and going...

Who is on a kind of counter jihad. big low takes her point of view and shoots the torture scenes in a neutral way, they are ugly, disturbing and at the same time given what the film is about, they don't exactly make us want to go out and sign a petition against torture. they are sort of portrayed as ugly but necessary, and i think that's the central question. was it necessary? we know it's ugly. was it necessary? >> so, frank, same two questions to you. is the movie accurate and does it justify means as a justification because 69 ends. because you get the bad guy it's okay to torture somebody ...

Detainee. many who have seen it say torture provided the groundwork for capturing and killing osama bin laden. as a moral statement, zero dark thirty is pord borderline fascistic. katherine big lowe said the movie was honest in its depiction of torture. >> i think the film doesn't have an agenda. i think it shows the story of the greatest manhunt in history and that's part of the history. >> but how honest is that history in the film? many experts say the film gets its facts wrong about the central role torture played. david eddel steen joins us as does frank bruney. thank you. it's an honor t...

That torture was a vital part of getting osama bin laden in the end, and the history of this, the experts about this, that's not what they say. there's debate about this and there's a strong belief among many of the most trustworthy experts that torture is not necessary in these sorts of interrogations and to get this sort of information, and so i think a lot of liberals -- i don't want to even do this in liberals and conservatives. i think a lot of people who have moral qualms about torture and don't want to accept it toob easily as a necessary technique are going to feel a bit uneasy this mo...

Fiscal cliff worries put a damper on today's triple digit rally but the dow ends with a 78 point gain, the s&p up 9, the nasdaq adds 35 points. aig shares jumped nearly 6%. the treasury department says it has sold all its remaining shares netting a $22.7 billion profit for taxpayers. and on the economic front, the trade deficit widened in october as exports posted their biggest decline in nearly four years. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." one of the most anticipated movies of the holiday season is "zero dark thirty" ...