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It could be that the father felt maybe i was a little too tough on him. maybe i was little too distant on him when he was a kid. so maybe i've got to help him now in a way that i might not otherwise have done? >> yes. and i think donald probably manipulated him very well. donald is a master manipulator of other people. his entire campaign from the get-go where people applauding his statements about racism in midtown manhattan, and the people doing it were actors he paid 50 bucks each. his entire life is a fraud and it is a deception. he is the master of the art of deception. and his father wan...

He doesn't say yes, i do. he just says that makes me smart, and those tax returns are never released. how would you advise voters to regard information like that? >> i wouldn't advise them at all because i don't know what his returns looked like at that point. >> but you do think it's important for voters -- >> you're talking 30 years ago. >> but you do think that it's important for voters to be able to see the candidate's tax returns? >> i do. >> and as i understand it, you haven't heard anything from candidate trump that prevents him from releasing those tax returns? >> no. >> okay. jack mit...

And back with us david cay johnston, who has been covering the adventures of donald trump for many years. kurt, it's all about daddy. >> oh, absolutely. donald trump, he likes to portray himself -- he needs to portray himself as some sort of self-made man. but seriously, he was born with a golden shovel in his mouth. whenever he tried something, he failed. and whenever he failed, his dad build a him out. even when he had his success, it was only because his father cosigned the loan or his father arranged for some other financial input. and, you know, one of the things i heard earlier that you ...

Bankruptcy was not through any personal skill, but because of an accident of birth, his wealthy father who set him up in business and build a donald trump out. kurt eichenwald reports that the tax records submitted to the new jersey department of law and publ safety concerning casinos showed five years of income, and that information showed that he declared $76,000 in income in 1975. $24,000 of income in 1976. 118,000 in 1977. and then in 1978, he reported a loss of 406,000. that was more than double the amount of his previously -- his earned income for the previous three years. and then the n...

Because, you know, that's a state that the governor and the state party have a lot of reservations about trump. they're worried about losing portman. they're worried about having down ballot damage from him, which he seems to be causing in a lot of places. >> okay. we're going to leave it there. rick wilson, thanks very much for joining us. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up next, donald trump's accountant will join us. he'll give us his views of what a presidential candidate's duties are in terms of releasing tax returns and other things. also, kurt eichenwald has a reve...