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Up and let us all look at it. >> okay. way they're going to do. >> if you look at whathad with clinton and nixon, there is an open process that we all get to see. it's not closed door. >> congressman dent, what about that? >> look, i don't think the process is ideal either and they should be a little more transparent. i do understand why they take that position sometimes behind closed door. i was chairman of the ethics committee. we did all behind closed doors because they were personnel matters. if the facts are not on your side, if the policy is not on your side, well, then, you argue proces...

A little more transparent. i do understand why they have -- they take that position sometimes behind closed doors. i was chairman of the ethics committee, we did all our proceedings behind closed doors because of personnel matters. at the end of the day, this isn't about process and procedure. if the facts aren't on your side, if the policy isn't on your side, you argue process and procedure. that's what's happening here. because let's face it, the substance of these allegations are very serious, and that bill taylor testimony yesterday or his opening statement is very compelling. and it basic...

Morning. so we're glad you're with us. why do you think republicans are doing what they are doing? why the obsession with the process? >> well, john, my view is any time you're arguing process, you're probably losing on policy or substance. that's always the case. so it's a distraction. because let's face it. it's very hard for republicans to defend the substance. not only on this issue, particularly the bill taylor testimony which was very compelling. but on these other issues, the withdrawal. there are so many issues. the original whistle-blower complaint. the facts are really bad. if you ca...

Majority and sile thnce the minority because they were sick of of the obama administration it delaying and denying their requests. so isn't this a problem of your own creation? >> yeah, they have to live with that. but to a certain extent asha had it wrong, well, not wrong, just incomplete. they can do it under the cloak of secrecy and leak out information that they want to leak out as they see fit. so they don't have to tell both sides of the story. the information doesn't come out to the public in a way that tells both sides. that's why they're doing what they're doing. >> but the republican...

Acknowledges or that most people recognize. and again i lay that out in the book. but mueller, i don't understand it really. he was a trained prosecutor. it's like when it really came down to the wire, he folded. >> well, i was going to ask you this because you go deep in some of those enduring mysteries. i call them the mueller probe. is it your personal opinion that mueller failed? >> well, it depends on how you define what his mission was. >> his mission was to stop the president from acting lawlessly. >> his mission was to investigate and if necessary prosecute. >> or recommend prosecution...