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16 trillion in debt. getting higher by the clock. senator mike lee has a vote on this from utah. thank you for coming here. no backup plan according to the white house. in addition the treasury department says there is no plan b. what do you think about that? >> well, that's a problem. too often in washington we're faced between kind of a false choice. we're presented with a choice that says, okay, you either take no cuts at all and raise the debt limit, or you raise the debt limit with the promise of kits that may never transpire and that kind of cut simply won't cut it anymore. hard-working ...

Those who want us to just raise the debt limit as if we were votings on a motherhood appreciation resolution will tell us if we don't raise its or don't raise it immediately or raise it only on the basis of permanent structural spending reform that will somehow amount to a default. we have to remember that this is not true. if we fail to raise the debt limit. it will bring about some problems t would bring about a significant short fall in revenue for the government but that is different than a default. a default is what happens if we don't pay the interest as it accrues on our national debt. ...

Texas isp booming. florida is doing well, tennessee. louisiana wants to join the states to get more job and higher income jobs. bill: bobby jindal wants to get in on the action? >> yeah. bill: what is the effect when states cut taxes like that, from a financial perspective. >> from a financial perspective it is great. art laffer does a lot of studies that show it does well for the states. when you cut personal and corporate tax you have incentive for corporations to come into the state. if more corporations are coming into the state, that means more jobs, that mines higher employment. people a...

>> the president's law would emphasize a path to citizenship. to try to get people living in the shadows a clear and clean path for citizenship and do so in one comprehensive bill as you and martha suggest. the republican plan put forward by marco rubio or will be put forward by marco rubio would take a slower approach. emphasize high-skilled legal immigration and make immigrants, illegal immigrants earn citizenship in a way the president's wouldn't. bill: can this pass based on the current composition of the house or the senate? will it? >> no. the president's plan won't pass the house of rep...

Which is what happens if we don't pay the interest on our national debt as it accrues and failing to raise the debt limit. the latter simply means that we would have to spend 60 or 70 cents on the dollar of what we're doing right now. now, again, that could cause some real problems. but that is very different than a default. and, we've got to shy away from that kind of hyperbolic language so we don't confuse the american voters that we're runing into a default when we're not. bill: talking about this too invites confusion in itself and i guess the fear from the republicans side is not to take ...