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It just seemed a it will petulant. >> what about friends in hot places? and i'm thinking about, say, egypt. >> yeah. >> we can't go ahead and penalize them. that relationship is, has been, and should be, kind of vital to us. >> absolutely. it's -- the money that we give to, let's say egypt, jordan, afghanistan, i mean, these are places that we have a tremendous responsibility. we can't pull away. i mean, that -- that would be -- also be not in our interest in any way. and by the way, it alien nates all the sunni nations that we have relationships with that supposedly donald trump wants to make...

>> yeah. >> we can't go ahead and penalize them. that relationship is, has been, and should be, kind of vital to us. >> absolutely. it's -- the money that we give to, let's say egypt, jordan, afghanistan, i mean, these are places that we have a tremendous responsibility. we can't pull away. i mean, that -- that would be -- also be not in our interest in any way. by the way, it also alienates all the sunni nations that we have relationships with that supposedly donald trump wants to make the ultimate deal with solving israel and palestine. you need the sunni nations to support that. again, in e...

>> it's this kind of tony soprano-ish approach to the u.n. that the money we give is the kind of extortion money and we can get people to do what we want them to do. i mean, it's just a misunderstanding of the international system. it makes me sad, and obviously, makes other people sad, is that, we're the architect of that system. we put that system in place with the u.n. here after world war ii, it prevented a world war, i mean, we're not giving money because we want them to vote with us, we're giving money because it keeps the peace. >> a lot of moderates have been looking at nikki haley as ...

Egypt. >> yeah. >> we can't go ahead and penalize them. that relationship is, has been, and should be, kind of vital to us. >> absolutely. it's -- the money that we give to, let's say egypt, jordan, afghanistan, i mean, these are places that we have a tremendous responsibility. we can't pull away. i mean, that -- that would be -- also be not in our interest in any way. and by the way, it alien nates all the sunni nations that we have relationships with that supposedly donald trump wants to make the ultimate deal with solving israel and palestine. you need the sunni nations to support that. aga...

>> -- to ask you foreign policy questions, of course. if you look around the world right now, hostilities are ratcheting up in a number of different theaters. iran, syria is a mess. there's practically a popup al qaeda shop in mali now. i'm wondering how different, maybe it's not very different at all, how different the world is now than the one you left in 2001 as secretary of defense? >> well, it's become more complicated to be sure. the world is more turbulent than it has been. i think also with the spread of information, technology now being in the hands of virtually anyone, technology has...