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>> that's part of it, right? but i do think that both in the tweets about john mccain and in this sort of renewed sense of anger and panic about mueller, what you see is that he really does feel under siege. part of this is definitely he's talking to the base by bringing up john mccain. part of that is talking to the very conservative republican base that never liked john mccain. thought john mccain lost an election and threw away an election. but i do think a lot of it is very personal to him and the fact that he feels under siege and he sees this in very black and white terms. very simplisti...

Want to trample on the mueller investigation because he may believe in it and doesn't want to have that slalegacy in the w that many former nixon aides did. that's his main goal is to run out the clock by doing that. >> he doesn't want to dump on rosenstein on the way out the door and there are some republicans who can't stand rosenstein and he wouldn't -- he wouldn't do that either. he wouldn't take on mueller specifically. eric swalwell tried to get him to take him on and he wouldn't and he said he agreed that he was honest and that he was not conflicted and that he had his respect, although...

Everything. he is kind of all knowing in a lot of ways. maybe he doesn't know all the details, and maybe he'll get more details from all the material that was seized in the raid when they arrested roger stone. but he knows who these people are at the top of the trump campaign that were directing roger to try to reach out to wikileaks. we don't know. so it's hard for us to evaluate just how serious that is and whether that leads to a conspiracy charge of some type or not. but mueller knows, and i assume, i hope that one day, hopefully the justice department won't get in the way of this, we the ...

>> there has to be. as was said, they don't believe him in many particulars. >> just big picture, why does that matter? >> because it suggests that the department of justice, which is run by the president, now believes institutionally that the president has committed a crime. i can't remember when this has ever happened before. usually when the president is being investigated it's been been an outside special counsel, an independent counsel like kenneth starr, like mueller himself. here you have the justice department itself saying that the president committed a crime and as -- you can be sure...

Him in many particulars. >> just big picture, why does that matter? >> because it suggests that the department of justice, which is run by the president, now believes institutionally that the president has committed a crime. i can't remember when this has ever happened before. usually when the president is being investigated it's been been an outside special counsel, an independent counsel like kenneth starr, like mueller himself. here you have the justice department itself saying that the president committed a crime and as -- you can be sure this was not done casually. this is something where...