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Government's involvement in gain of function research, whether that was its funding of it, or that it performed itself. >> walter? >> let me ask you, there's a character in your piece, peter dasak, he's the one, an american zoologist, and he's funded by the american institutes of health, right? and he's funded to do gain of function research, right? and he's working for the wuhan -- working with the wuhan institute and even some of grant money gets transferred there. is that sort of the issue at stake that we were funding gain of function research and we knew that it was being done in wuhan? >...

Which is, go out into these super remote areas, find these bat samples, and bring them back. now, critics of dasak say, you know, you're going out into the remotest areas, finding these samples, bringing them back to these crowded metropolises, like wuhan, which has 11 million people in it, you know, and then you have this fundamental problem. you know why in the dead of winter when most bats are hibernating, in a city where there are no bats, in a market where they're not sold would we have an outbreak with the wuhan institute of virology seven miles away, doing this risky, dangerous research...

The examination of covid-19's origin. joining us now, the author of that report, contributor to "vanity fair," katherine ebann. >> katherine, i would like to build this up, but i'm one of these guys who says, why don't we just go hamlet in the first hakt. i see this part right here. explain this to us. a december 2020 state department meeting, one official admonished his colleagues not to ask questions about the wuhan virology institute, something known as gain of function, why, you ask? she tells us. as it would call attention to the u.s. government's support for that research. tell us what t...

Run the risk of unleashing them, and why do that when they don't exist in nature to begin with. >> so let's back up. >> okay. so what i said to you at the top was basically in 2020, after the election, there's a meeting in the state department. an official tells everybody, back off, don't ask too many questions about what china's doing, what they're doing in wuhan, because that may come back to bite the united states government, because they helped with funding of gain of function research. >> right. so, you know, the article documents this very sharp divide between these two groups within the...