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Used to work with him. don't agree with you on this point. i know the white house -- i talked to a senior adviser there. that person said we view the republicans getting the senate as basically even more hearings. we'll have double the hearings and even more gridlock. they are not optimistic about that. they don't think that's true. i guess a key point substantively is even if the republicans have 51 seats, that means the democrats can functionally block anything they want to pass as well. it's a recipe for more gridlock. also, it's not clear the republicans really have -- you know, they've ha...

Grounds of the actual immigration bill, legalization, the 11 million, public is with the democratic view on that particular issue. >> nbc news senior political reporter perry bacon. good to see you, brother. >> thanks, guys. >> love perry. we just touched briefly on the politics surrounding the border crisis. next, we're going to take you to where few of the leading voices in this debate have actually been, the border itself. that's next. it's "the cycle," and it's monday, july 7. >> 7/7/14. 7 plus 7 equals -- >> cut his mic. and i am so thankful to angie's list for bringing us together. find ...

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Perry, i actually disagreed with the argument of this piece. if i were hillary clinton or if i were advising hillary clinton, i would say, why would you put out your big ideas right now? because we know how the media handles this. we know what the republicans are going to do. they're just going to attack, attack, attack, especially if she's the only one putting ideas forward. not to mention, we don't know what these big ideas are going to be for 2016. is it going to be immigration, health care? we don't know at that point. i think she's smart to wait this out a little bit. >> if you look at ra...

How he meets and deals with republicans in congress. i'm not sure people in the white house would praise him on that ground in particular. they had to beg him to play golf with boehner, which he didn't really want to do. hillary clinton is more for obamacare than obama as far as i can tell. she's really been close to him on pretty much every issue. i think when she distances herself on a real from obama, it will be covered breathlessly on every network, including ours. that has not happened yet. >> there's still a ways to go. we talk about it as if the election is tomorrow. speaking about hill...