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Vis-a-vis russia than that in germany. having said that i do think one of the things i found very interesting about this dialogue that macron is trying to pursue, is that he really is doing it in consultation very, very close consultation with germany. they have differences, of course they do, and they are exposed in different ways to what happens or what might happen should there be an invasion of ukraine, but he has -- macron has been at pains to consult not only with germany all the way through. after we left kyiv on tuesday we went straight to berlin where he debriefed the german chancello...

Vis-a-vis russia than that in germany. having said that i do think one of the things i found very interesting about this dialogue that macron is trying to pursue, is that he really is doing it in consultation, very, very close consultation with germany. they have differences, of course they do, and they are exposed in different ways to what happens or what might happen should there be an invasion of ukraine, but he has -- macron has been at pains to consult not only with germany all the way through. after we left kyiv on tuesday we went straight to berlin where he debriefed the german chancell...