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Going to have to engage at some level? or -- awful coverage, that we are going to see her in the next day, just alienated him further from the mainstream press, and drive him further away? i think this will be a good test in that sense, of this candidate. >> yeah. well there are so many tests that ron desantis has to pass. i guess one of the things that was reported in the new york times, mark, was the army that -- assembling to basically get out support, get out the vote for ron desantis in the early primary states. they are planning on spending $200 million to beat donald trump. and they are...

Decide if he is a candidate, do you keep that plan of, just to bio talk about me and avoid, engaging in trump, or do you have to call on -- . the flight here and get back? lord knows donald trump is going to be swinging in swinging fiercely. >> yeah. mark, in the time that those 21 minutes of technical glitches, we were treated to that, the trump campaign literally cut an ad juxtaposing trump's campaign launch with the ron desantis campaign launch. they're going to be vicious. the dissent as people seem so intent on not saying anything bad about donald trump. the opposite is not true. i mean, ...

People who are going to be door knocking multiple times on the same door for ron desantis? do you sense a groundswell of grassroots enthusiasm for ron desantis, mark? >> no. i don't. certainly tonight will not help. i do think that clearly, there is a hunger, there isn't appetite in the republican party for someone alternative to donald trump. ron desantis had this positioning for the last three months, that he was looked to is someone who could be that person, that people could rally around. you know, now he has to do something that -- go out in public. but, look, the fact is that he is deali...

>> no journalists with top democrat party sources, they are reporting about the worry within the party. a few weeks ago it was jonathan martin not senior democrats is too old for second term. and today it was mark leave of the atlantic. also noting the worried the democrats have in private about joe biden's age and wishing he would step aside. the public silence around the presidents predicament has become tiresome and potentially catastrophic for the democratic party. somebody should make a refreshing nuisance of himself and involve the voters in this discussion. not one of the few elected de...

A shoe in. and at this point in 2016, trump wasn't even seen as a contender. but this time really does feel different. trump is an incredibly known entity and it doesn't seem like republicans like what they know about him. joining us now as mark leave a bitch staff writer for the atlantic and author of thank you for your servitude, donald trump's washington and the price of submission. mark there's almost no one in the world and i would rather talk to this about. i will try to refrain from philly. we don't do it low hanging fruit. having said that, let's go back to the nfts. >> let's do it. >>...