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To do on phone. that said, i do think -- i do think readers sort of understand that paul krudman does not work for me. >> you do think readers do know that for sure? >> well, paul, who i think is a fabulous columnist, criticizes me sometimes. >> he hits us all. >> i didn't mean personally. i think they do. i think we have to work harder to make it -- to make the distinction clearer. i think they do. i don't think -- let's not kid ourselves. even in the print era, people didn't always make the distinction. i think it's harder to do now, especially in the presentation on the phone. but i sort of...

>> i didn't mean personally. i think they do. i think we have to work harder to make it -- to make the distinction clearer. i think they do. i don't think -- let's not kid ourselves. even in the print era, people didn't always make the distinction. i think it's harder to do now, pecially in the presentation on the phone. but i sort of think they do. >> my final question to you. i thought it was a fabulous op-ed in the "new york times" from mid december, it was by masa gessen. it was writing about trump. by denying known and provable facts, as when mr. trump denies making statements he has made...