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Kaspirov. he understands the national game of russia chess very well and we're seeing a chess game here. putin is pushing, pushing, pushing, he also wants to consolidate defense around what he perceives as a less defendable borders for russia in the wake of nato. one other point to be made here, stephanie, is that putin also seeks to divide nato, he seeks to divide europe on this issue. he knows there's controversy about oil and gas and above all he would like to divide the united states and portray the biden administration as weak headed into our elections. so as always it's a game within a g...

And the u.s. and our western allies are pushing to get russia to back off from a possible invasion. the biden administration saying no firm commitments will be made and the feeling is mutual for russia with officials warning to the u.s. not to overplay its hand. carol lee joins us from washington, matt bod ner and admiral james stavridis and gary kaspiroff. matt, the u.s. and russia did not sound optimistic on either side even going into these talks. tell us where we are now. >> reporter: so the case for optimism appears to be getting harder to make. russia is bringing a very, very hard line t...