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I mean, the other thing i think that's important here is that we talk about competitive schools. talking about harvard, right? the vast majority of americans going to colleges are going to two-year schools or four-year schools that accept more than they reject. right? i mean, there is a very elite conversation about people stressing about the s.a.t. and stressing to get into harvard, but that's a tiny sliver. >> it is, although it's increasing. the flagship universities in every state, university of georgia, university of florida, there's the hope scholarship. there's bright future scholarship...

>> jimmy? >> so we fill things, that period you talked about, '30s and '70s, we made a lot of stuff in this country. we made tube socks, we made tanks, we made it all here, right? >> uh-huh. >> all of a sudden, we don't make any of that stuff anymore here, right? >> true. >> is there a correlation? should we begin to make more here? should the government incentivize international and american corporations to come and build things here, to give people jobs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? is there a correlation? >> i think there is a rough correlation. in the book i tried to look at what was uniq...

>> karen? >> you were just talking about too much inequality. i guess is the change partly a change in mindset that -- because it feels like in the political debate, the policy debate, there is this idea that somehow prosperity or equality is this finite concept rather than, you know, there is no reason to have these kinds of d disparities because we can all do well. one group doesn't have to do well at the expense of the other, but it seems like there has been a shift in the way we talk about policy here in washington that may be impacting what you're talking about. is that fair? >> i think t...

Going to cause a little bit of risk in our culture. >> i agree with what she says, karen. i see you nodding on camera. it sounds like you agree pretty much with a lot of what you heard here. where do you go with this, and is there room for the court to win the confidence of the people by a non-political but a more vested in the premise of equality that's articulated in the constitution in the first place? >> i think a lot of that will depend on, in a lot of these cases, because if this goes to the supreme court, i think it will be there about the same time as doma, for example, but even just g...

On civil rights. equality is morality. morality is equality. i don't distinguish between the two of those things. and the court says equal justice under the law. to me that's a moral statement. i try to be a moral person. that's a moral statement. when you say to someone that they are lesser, that they should get in the back of the gay bus, that they should not have a special right, an equal right. that's a moral right. >> i'll tell you why i disagree with you, because i've watched in my years in this business, people prans arouce around with moral rights, condescending for everybody who comes...