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I think we have a rifle shot, not a meat ax. we need to rifle shot these programs to keep from a government shutdown. we shouldn't shut down the government. but there are certain things we shouldn't compromise on. tough decisions will be made in the next few days. bill: when you move to the new year, do you expect the new republican majority in congress to succeed or fail? >> i'm absolutely convinced that our lesson from this last election that they want to us govern southern we'll govern and we'll have a positive agenda. if the president wants to veto the results of that positive agenda he ca...

Knows is not true. what we wouldn't have done is pass add 2700 page bill that takes away a trillion dollars from health care providers and causes millions of americans to lose the plans they have and like. we would have gone in a different direction. instead of taking a meat ax to the american health care system, we would have taken a scalpel, done things like interstate health insurance, allow consumers to pool together to purchase insurance cheaper, medical malpractice reform. imagine how much is lost each year with unnecessary tests. those are the type of things we would have done. ironical...

Fall? that kathleen sebelius, as some have suggested, ought to resign? >> well, let's have congressional hearings. let's find out who is responsible for this fiasco and take the appropriate action in my view, but, look, this is just the beginning of the problems associated with a massive restructuring of one-fifth of our economy, and there's going to be a whole lot more problems associated with this before it's done. that's why we republicans have to keep up the fight, but we have to rifle shot it rather than a -- go at it with a meat ax which cannot succeed. >> so rifle shot meaning try and r...

Our children's money because we're borrowing from the next generation to pay for this. >> greta: i was going to ask you about waste and fraud, i don't know if you know it on capitol hill, a number of staffers who owe taxes. >> staffers and people from the irs and other-- >> and what effort is being made? i know some bills have been introduced to do something about the tremendous amount of waste in government, whether it's empty buildings, people getting payments who shouldn't, people getting unemployment who are in jail. the numbers are sort of staggering, so much fat in the government. >> wha...

Place in history to start the conversation. that will warm him up. your thoughts. >> absolutely. i don't know if it was about him that paul krugman said it's a dumb person's view of what a smart person sounds like. paul ryan is essentially trying to propose to balance the budget in ten years. his previous draconian budget did so in something like 40. to meet this test, austerity at all cost, this fetish on the right, he's decided to take a meat ax not only to medicare as you said, voucherizing it, again, which he already proposed and was rejected before. there's this idea which is totally disi...