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Plans would be, none of that exists yet. this only underscores the fact that this is a fight that is -- it's a purely political fight. the wall represents to donald trump his base. and that is why he is sticking to it. the longer the shutdown goes, the longer he has the ability to do like he did this past week and talk in front of the white house for an hour about the wall. he thinks that helps shore up his own political support. and as long as he has that, that's why he's distanced from ending the shutdown. >> last question, any way to predict the length of this shutdown? >> gosh, i don't kno...

About his rhetoric on immigration. >> basic human decency. whether or not you believe, what you believe about the strength of our borders or how it should be handled. i believe immigrants should be treated with decency. >> it is a very difficult problem and it is going to take a broad solution. we certainly do have trouble with, immigration laws do need to be reformed. but it needs to be done in an intelligent, compassionate way. >> and i think they should be taking babies and kids away from families. and then not even know where they are at? that is not right. it is not american. >> allowed t...