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When you look at the totality of what they're doing on this stuff, what is your assessment of how they've been guiding this epa? >> it's the way they've been approaching every issue, which is if obama had anything to do with it, we're going to undo it. it's mindless because it's not thoughtful. you can come in as a new administration and take a look at the regulations that were enacted by the previous one and side what fits with your program and what doesn't, and then the ones that you think are good, you massage and claim as your own. but this is just no, we're going to do away with all of it...

Around with the science. in the end you, have to go to court and justify these regulations. this is an administration that has done quite badly in court. they have been saved a coupe of times by the right wing judges. but so often the efforts to roll back regulations have been defeated in a court. so part of this push and pull insures that if you're going to do a regulatory change, it's done in way that is defensible. >> dan, in toto, how much of a threat is this? when you look at everything, the clean power rule, withdrawing from paris obviously, possibly open up the national forest in alaska...

Here, that's going to be the big sticking point. >> i think it's on policy. stephanie, the public has spoken whether it's australia's public, france's public, washington state. the carbon tax isn't going to be the right way to do this. we're going to have to as a policy come up with another way to find the money. >> another way to find the money, but also marshall across sectors and communities to move it forward. the wrong way to do it is. >> you know, part of the reason oil and gas liked the methane rule that the president rolled back today is because it is one of the most effective ways to ...

Regulation. they said it required, you know, in some cases six-month inspections. in some cases, you know, when they found leaks, they were required -- you had a great interview there with the president of the western energy alliance, a group of independent gas and oil companies. the obama era epa methane rule was the definition of red tape, a recordkeeping nightmare that was technically impossible to execute in the field. i mean, is it technically impossible? i don't know if this is the kind of maybe a tough question, but as a percentage of profits, was it that burdensome? >> well, the oil co...

Power plan, the methane rule, the coal ash rule. a lot of these things he will now have to implement. the changes in emissions standards for automobiles. so it's going to be up to wheeler to see them through. what i expect to see, actually he'll do them in a more strategic way and perhaps a more successful way because there's going to be less fireworks that are distractions. >> great to speak with you, eric, thanks for the reporting. richard painter, my thanks to you as well. out of time. the white house says it can't reunite all migrant families separated bat the border in tim for a court-o...