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Conservative. there have been many conservatives in the senate. jesse helms was as conservative from north carolina, as conservative as most of these guys. but there's a belief among ted cruz, mike lee, rand paul to a certain extent, though i don't know if i'd put him in that group, that the senate as an institution has basically failed. it's the jim demint argument. jim demint is the prejenetor of this. the way things have been done in the senate are by nature, therefore, wrong. that's why you hear ted cruz say, look, i don't trust how this is going to work. i think mccain and others say what...

That's passed by one body and the other body? there's -- that's what we've been doing for a couple hundred years. >> will the senator yield for a question? >> all i can say is has the senator from utah have another way of reconciling legislation between the house and the senate? of course not. of course he doesn't. of course he doesn't. of course he doesn't. maybe the senator from utah ought to learn a little bit more about how business has been done in the congress of the united states. >> mccain's right on that one. how deep is the rift in the republican party? you saw it i think. what exact...