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Told him. shoot them in the legs. michael, what does that tell you about the president's thinking? >> well, look. i mean, what that passage is part of is a broader effort that started, frankly, in rhetoric form as he was campaigning for the presidency. then the minute he got into the oval office, this president has tried every which way to slow the flow of migrants in this country to stop them if he could and slow them down. and what our story suggests and our book goes into more detail about is the ways in which the people around him were -- are continually forced to confront ever more extrem...

>> as for was i on the phone call? i was on the phone call. had the phone call was in the context of now i'd been the secretary of state for a year and a half. i know precisely what the american policy is with respect to ukraine. >> i was on the phone call. would have been a sufficient answer to martha raddatz. >> seems easy enough. joining us now michael sheir. michael, i mean -- we still don't know why he didn't give that one sentence answer to martha raddatz ten days a ego. >> it's the honest answer but evasive answer. the part of his question was not just were you on the phone call but it ...

Hopefully our book will do this but also that people will see kind of how things play out, they'll make their assessment about her. >> michael sheir, the book again is "border wars: inside trump's assault on immigration." thank you for sharing it with us. >> thanks, guys. americans have only faced impeachment of a president a handful of times. we're joined next on how history could give us a road map for what lies ahead or not. saturdays happen. pain happens. aleve it. aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong.

That question will not go away. those kinds of formal press conferences that you just saw a piece of are a difficult place to have follow-up questions. but members of congress are going to be able to follow up when they -- you know, if they get him before them or if they put that question to him over and over again. as our reporters are over and over again. so he's going to have to answer kind of the more important questions that follow from the admission that he was on the call. >> michael, i think he also -- at least what i took from it, he clarified what he meant that the state department i...

Go inside his cell in robben island. here's what he wrote. on behalf of our family, we're deeply humbled to stand where men of such courage faced down injustice and refused to yield. mandela represented and i think michael sheir among others pointed out in the "new york times" today the kind of hope that would become the theme of the president's first campaign. what has been his influence on barack obama and his leadership? >> well, actually, that photo you just took of obama in june of 2013, that was the second time he was in that cell. i was with him the first time in august of 2006 when he ...