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Work. >> but if we offer transparency, maybe the fbi can say maybe sir, but he can release all his public text messages with his son during campaign years. >> it does send a terrible presence dent when the white house tells the doj what to do. >> he's trying to snoop on the fbi. works both ways. michael, appreciate your insights. >> thank you, john. >> let's bring in the appropriateness or inappropriateness team of the president being there, only there for the start of the meetings. >> wasn't there for any of the information being discussed but does send a message that big brother is watching,...

The president of united states, mr. flood has to be there for the briefing. just odor over the line? michael zeldon has experience with michael mueller. what does it say, um et flood is the president's lawyer to be there at that meeting? >> well, it's not a good appearance for certain. and you have to understand how this meeting was originated, which was to say that the doj and the fbi did not want to review any of this human source information. but they were eventually forced to, they were brought to the white house and the president said you shall do this. then when the meeting was to begin ...

I want to talk about the proposed at&t and time warner merger. joining me is brian stelter and michael zeldon. just when you thought it couldn't get more interesting, here we go. rudy giuliani is getting the president in hot water. >> rudy giuliani quoted in an interview with the huffington post saying the president denied the merger. five simple words that have a significant meaning. they contradict everything we have been told up until now about why at&t and time warner were sued to stop this deal. let's go back 18 months. the deal is announced during the campaign. president trump, then cand...

States." according to dowd, mueller responded said that he could issue a subpoena. there is a historical precedent for that. former president bill clinton was subpoenaed in the monica lewinsky investigation. he did end up giving a voluntary interview to that investigation. former mueller assistant michael zeldon talked about it this morning. listen to what he said. >> i think what we saw was a breakdown in communications between former attorney dowd and mueller where mueller and dowd were trying to work out a deal for the voluntary testimony. dowd wouldn't budge. mueller said if you don't budg...

There's perjury. but it is not a trap. >> ken, i do not have the legal expertise you have, but in my 45 years of research, i always found the best way not to get caught lying is to not lie. >> well, first of all, certainly michael's correct about the technical use of the term perjury trap, but newt gingrich is a history professor, not a lawyer. he was using it descriptively in mr. trump's personality type. he is the king of hyperbole. that personality type and his stubbornness about it are really not well suited to sitting down and giving particularized, specific answers. i mean, that's what n...