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Charge of the wagner network, he had nothing to do with it. so this is a group who operates on the shadows. a micro decision is, yes, they have been operating in the shadows but their footprint in africa is significant, they have a footprint in afghanistan, the middle east, as well as europe. they are a transnational criminal mafia and it is absolutely wrong that we haven't had sufficient focus within the british government but also allied governments to crack down on them or to work out how to medicate the worst excess of their behaviours. when they go into a country, human atrocities always ...

Of iran. what you have that situation, how do we move forward? that's where with the diplomacy comes in. >> can i ask you this, huge question but since i have you here. u.s. been in state of war 16 years since attacks in 2001. kinetic military activity in at least seven countries at the current moment i believe, unending sort of state of war and generally doesn't seem like terrorism is any worse off or middle east is any more stable. every micro decision to use force might have justification but zooming out, doesn't look like we've been effective over the last 17 years. >> but that presupposes...