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That this is getting broader and wider. and it's -- what's still not clear, and paula was speaking to this, is who really was being targeted. why they were being targeted. they were being targeted for a subpoena, but are they the target of an investigation? we know in barbara starr's circumstances, we know that she was not a target of an investigation. why isn't the justice department explaining -- why can't the justice department explain the circumstances around this more? >> certainly the justice department could explain it if they want to. there's nothing prohibiting that. but the justice d...

Journalists like barbara starr and other people who kind of work for the public interest we always hope, unlike mob figures, they're being treated pretty much the same way. and you know, the cnn example is a great example. counsel to cnn, david vigilante, was issued a subpoena, and he was gagged, the subpoena said he couldn't even tell barbara starr or others at the network that the subpoena had been issued. and this went on for a long period of time. by the way, the penalty for violating that gag order could be years in prison. it could be a felony violation. so this is an area where you can ...

Far. never. i picked us over him. [ bleep ]. >> we see this sad portrayal of these men who had money, power, and other things. but ultimately their lives caught up with them. i wonder if you think it's important that the public see and understand the consequences. >> absolutely. absolutely. and they do. >> and most of these guys, they wind up dead or in jail. >> absolutely. and that's been the record in the southern district ever since. i mean, lots of mob figures after i was there were prosecuted and went to jail as well. >> my final question for you is really big picture. folks watching can ...

Godfather," and he likes to imitate mob figures. and he has done that on stage for the inner circle, the organization of political reporters. and he enjoys doing that. but he also likes to play the role. and so he and michael cohen, michael cohen also likes to play the role obviously from this tape. so they very much are alike. >> and it sounds like the kind of figures that donald trump, especially with his lawyers, that he surrounds himself with. there are some newly released audio recordings. and they reveal michael cohen made a series of vulgar threats to a reporter in order to protect dona...

At city hall. rudy is like that. it's -- his favorite movie is "the godfather," and he likes to imitate mob figures. and he's done that on the stage, and he enjoys doing that. but he also likes to play the role. and so he and michael cohen, michael cohen also likes to play the role obviously from this tape. so they very much are alike. >> and it sounds like the kind of figures that donald trump, especially with his lawyers, that he surrounds himself with. there are some newly released audio recordings. and they reveal michael cohen made a series of vulgar threats to a reporter in order to prot...