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Going well, then your going to say what you got to say, and then you're going to count on your lawyers afterwards to sort of fix it for you. so that it seems to me what donald trump was doing. it's going to get increasingly harder for him to do that, i think, as the mueller case continues and the investigation starts the wrap up. >> right after the president submitted those answer, asha, we learned that cohen told mueller that trump tower, the trump tower moscow negotiations were ongoing much longer than we thought, and that manafort had lied to mueller and his plea deal was toast. do you thin...

Immerging right now. it's not related directly to the mueller case. it involves a russian lawyer that was there in june of 2016 of that infamous trump tower meeting. she is charged in an unrelated ca ca case. >> yes. she is that now infamous 2016 trump tower meeting with senior members, she is charged with obstruction and prosecutors of manhattan. it has to do with this money la laundering case. it ended up helping win the case essentially for her side and what the prosecutors are saying is that she lied. she mislead them about connections to the kremlin. she head her connections to the kremli...

Make allegations about the special counsel's investigation more broadly and about robert mueller personally. you might have seen reference in the last week or so to a sort of joking reference to a nude selfie that may exist in the mueller case. that came from one of the deliberately provocative filings from his lawyers. but all the attitude from his lawyers and t i think, admittedly provocative nature of the way they argued this case for their russian clients, doesn't mean they aren't doing something serious here. they have attempted to mount a serious challenge to mueller's authority. they're...

That you would have a conspiracy case where the lower level guy goes to jail and the upper level guy does nothing. in fact, when the fruit of the conspiracy is to win the election, he just holds that up and says i'm sorry. by the way now that i've won, you can't indict me. that seems to be more of a threat on that case than the mueller case. >> i guess the issue comes down to where is the line between what is political and what is legal? of course, in a case like impeachment, it's very clearly political as opposed to legal. it's not tried by a court. it's tried by legislators, the congress and...

They invited the judge to go a little below the 42-month guideline. so i'm not sure that the two sides are all that far apart. the mueller case was a much smaller potato case in terms of the exposure for mr. cohen, so they were necessarily in a backseat to manhattan. i'm not sure they were that far apart, i just think the southern district memo did not warm up to the memo that mr. cohen's attorneys filed. charles: you would not get that interpretation from reading a newspaper, from reading a headline, from watching the media. this is president trump's personal attorney, he knew everything, thi...