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Released? >> right. >> if there was a conspiracy, chris, he would have known what he had and when it was going toby released. >> you're talking about to satisfy the criminal definition. >> yes. >> but that's not my standard. i get it that it's yours but i think it's too convenient a standard. >> but it's mueller's standard. that's what he was sent to do. >> when you look at the read out for him, yes, he's looking for crimes but he's also looking for coordination and proof of content. it's right in the mandate. >> no, the mandate was to investigate criminal violations. >> that is in there under...

>> but it's mueller's standard. that's what he was sent to do. >> for a crime. >> yes, but he's also looking for coordination and proof of content. >> not at all. >> it's right in the mandate. >> no, the mandate was to investigate criminal violations. >> that is in there under the main statute but the actual directive says to look for proof of coordination or contact and i'm just saying let's say there's no crime, there's no conspiracy. what i'm saying is if you knew that your guy was going to assange to try to get the wikileaks information early to help your campaign and you told us you never...

The judge said, well, this is one of the parts of our system that keeps the powerful honest. yet he doesn't seem to accept that it actually is very american to do this, even though he claims that it's against what most americans would expect from their country. >> david, i want to focus on his wording, he says current libel laws are "a sham and disgrace and do not represent american values or fairness." i want to know what you make of that. tying it to american values. it does bear repeating -- this is a president who was a leader of pushing the false idea that president obama was not american...

Hide, but there's no way to know for sure without bob mueller sitting him across the table, and gauging his answers, and his credibility. was he intending to obstruct or not? >> carrie, there's the criminal standard that mueller is looking at, that congress has the standard that doesn't have to dovetail precisely with mueller's standard. which standard should the white house be more concerned about? >> they're probably most concerned about legal exposure with the special counsel's case, because the special counsel's investigation star what we know, it looks like it's covering several different...

That. it does bear repeating -- this is a president who was a leader of pushing the false idea that president obama was not american. >> absolutely. look, there's nothing more american than our libel laws. we do set a higher standard. we require more of a plaintiff when he's been accused than, say, the united kingdom does. the libel laws are very consistent with our values, we a robust rock 'em/sock 'em democracy, and a freedom of press which has a bulwark of our freedom. look at the whole movie "the post" that's getting so much attention. it's sort of like, i don't know why the president need...