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That's his testimony. >> no. >> the omb official. >> told minimum. >> and the president has not allowed the omb official to testify. >> we could clear this up easily. >> that the information came from mick mulvaney. and that came from the president. mick mulvaney is the president's chief of staff. mick mulvaney refuses to testify in this proceeding. >> right. >> so the only people willing to testify are the individuals who are taking their oath seriously and understand the gravity of the hearings that are going on and who are appearing under subpoena to testify before the proceeding. >> firsth...

Much in the senate. >> no. there is a real frustration amongst senate republicans who had a closer relationship with john kelly. mick mulvaney is a man of the house. he comes from the house of representatives. he's close to people who are in the freedom caucus. and if you're leader mcconnell, senators told me they wanted don mcgahn in there because if you're going to have a transactional relationship with president trump, it's got to work like a machine. get all the conservatives into these judicial posts, don't care about the president's tweets. it's just nomination after nomination stealthil...

For a senator to make. and the problem that i think that the president ultimately has here, for years senators have been able to look the other way at some of the things he does because they don't have to vote on it. and eventually at the end of the day there is going to be a trial and all the evidence is going to be laid out. they are going to have to vote on it, and the public is going to be watching closely. and i think the buckets of senators you lay out, there are four senators who are retiring this cycle who are no longer accountable to donald trump. they don't have to worry about being ...

Is right. the deep frustration about how he is both inside and outside the white house how he has sort of steered the ship during this impeachment inquiry that they felt like the president has been angry at him from the beginning that he has not been able to sort of navigate some of these rough waters, that he hasn't been able to change the story line at all. some of that may be unfair, but he didn't do the president any favors. john kelly point, certainly he had some success keeping the president in line for a few months, some success. and also by the end of their relationship, the two men we...

Of the day the maneuver -- his maneuver to pull american forces out of the kurds still standing with us. or will they just remember that speech that he just gave? for me, you know, obviously i focus on the fact that he did withdraw troops, the fact that he did in the same speech go after obama needlessly, right? i focus on that. but i wonder if the average sort of voter, average republican that's still on the fence, if their only takeaway from this was the point was the way in which he delivered that message the other day. >> you know, betsy, i lapped up all of the reporting in every news orga...