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British or american. bottom line, this lack of confrontation of islamism, theocratic islam, if you will, it allowing these ideologies to brew has brought exactly what prices have brought. the reason they commit acts of terror is they want to start an equal and opposite reaction. as a response, that opposite reaction of hyper nationalism, bigotry, racial supremacy as him, is exactly what isis wants. as long as the west continues to deny, because of using muslims as a minority, a grievance group, as long as we deny that islam is at the time of history in which his confronting theocracy in iran a...

>> why would this man driving a van into british muslims who are worshiping? >> martha: because he is playing into what the islamists want to. >> because he is bought into what zuhdi is saying. >> martha: he bought into --dash go ahead. >> it is furthering the notion of muslims at large bear the responsibility. >> martha: i never heard him say that once. >> denied that for me, would you? >> ahmed, i will tell you that the nativist hyper nationalist does feed this -- but you also have to acknowledge, and you can't take americans or fools, that the global jihadist movement has nothing to do with...

That that is exactly what isis wants. isis wants it to be directed at all muslims. thinking people understand outcome of that is not the case. this man acted in a very violent way, which is wrong, which is why it is being treated as a terrorist attack. you can't allow them to be successful in doing that. zuhdi? >> there are a few examples -- >> martha: we have to wrap it up. >> there are a few example of militants like this guy. you continue to deny the link to the militant reactions we have to protect our country from, and you are avoiding the leadership necessary to acknowledge, yes, there m...

Link in his mind, that he is acting against isis. somehow all muslims are complicit for what isis does or all muslims bear some responsibility. >> martha: this is where the conversation goes, zuhdi, the problem is that this has been blamed on all muslims, and that is what inside a man like this to do what he did. what do you say? >> martha, hypocrisy is that many on the left and in the islamists, they come together and want to blame rhetoric and political ideology on individuals like this nation nationalist. when it comes to global jihadist them, they don't want to make connection between nonv...

47-year-old man from wales who drove this van into this group of worshipers who were leaving that mosque. what he is saying is that this is part of the plan, to incite this kind of chaos between people and to pet them against each other, and create these situations. that is the goal of what isis wants. >> i agree with him on that particular point. isis does want, ultimately, to divide and to put a wedge between muslims and non-muslims. i don't know federal he is saying. in the west in particular, in europe, united states, but in the world at large. i think, however, where we part ways, myself ...