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Ukraine and other countries from everjoining nato, but as i said, the minute there are boots on the ground in ukraine, all of that goes off the table, and any of those advantages or gains he would help to of made would completely evaporate and get blown up, so i think he does realise that he needs to have pressure in order to get people to the table and he is willing to keep turning the screws until such time as that at least gets to some point of satisfaction for him. it doesn't mean that there won't be an invasion, but he still has time to let this play out and see if you can rest more conce...

Interesting to get those different views, and just to conclude this section of the programme, henry, back to you. someone i spoke to recently about ukraine, an expert on the country, was talking about the jaw war rather than the war war — the talking — so is that what you think putin is trying to do, ramp up pressure, extract more concessions? we know that putin is a very calculated leader, and he knows full well that the minute there is an invasion, everything resets, right? some of the concessions he has been hoping for in the talks with us and nato, which he has not gotten yet, there at...

All the americans are saying, - and borisjohnson and the others, all they're saying is, - if he wanted to do it now, he could do it now. interesting to get those different views, and just to conclude this section of the programme, henry, back to you. someone i spoke to recently about ukraine, an expert on the country, was talking about the jaw war rather than the war war — the talking — so is that what you think putin is trying to do, extract more concessions? we know that putin is a very calculated leader, and he knows full well that the minute there is an invasion, everything resets, rig...

The imminence of conflict? we have got a situation where you have russia's same, we cannot possibly stomach the idea of our near neighbour, ukraine, everjoining nato, and ukraine saying, we are a sovereign country so we should have the right to do that if we want, and you wonder how either side can climb down. it's a major moment. i mean, i feel very privileged to have this role but, as part of this role, on issues as serious as this, myself, keir starmer, john healey, who shadow for us on defence, we get high—level briefings from the ministry of defence officials, foreign office officials a...

It wouldn't exactly be what he wants in terms of complete banishment of ukraine and other countries from everjoining nato, but as i said, the minute there are boots on the ground in ukraine, all of that goes off the table and any of those advantages or gains he would hope to have made would completely evaporate and get blown up, so i think he does realise that he needs to have pressure in order to get people to the table and he is willing to keep turning the screws until such time as that at least gets to some point of satisfaction for him. it doesn't mean that there won't be an invasion, but ...