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let's be clear, this is far from a done deal. until you actually see the indictment, the charges, a lot can happen between now and even the potential for that happening. but sources are telling cnn that new york city, state, and federal law enforcement agencies have been meeting all week long to prepare for the possibility of an indictment. and it will be a stunning surrender of a former president of this country. with all that, talk about fingerprinting, mug shots, an arraignment, a perp walk of a former president of the united states. what his own attorneys telling t new york daily...

And it is entirely possible, in this case, which is unusual -- >> right. >> -- that they might vote the other way. although, you know better than me, usually a prosecutor walks out of a grand jury with what a prosecutor came in looking for. >> you mean, it's the old indictment of the ham sandwich adage. now i'm going to turn to my panel. the only thing is, don's right about the minimum number of people. if you have 12 out of 23 who are willing to go forward on a charge, that's not a home run. i don't care if you're rounding third base or it's out of the park, it's not a sure thing. just think ...

That's also being repeated by republicans now, right? they are saying only donald trump can fix the situation that we are in. to what degree have they internalized his own delusion? >> you know, the president had -- forgive me, the former president has really hardened this narrative for himself, as phil and i learned when we interviewed him on the record in mar-a-lago in the spring for this book. and he's also hardened this conspiracy theory narrative, this idea that ideas that don't square with reality are true. the idea that vaccines aren't necessary, that the coronavirus isn't very serious,...

Would be useful. i was texting back and forth with a member of the house democratic caucus says the power of these images, even if it's just robert mueller reading verbatim from the report carries so much more weight in the democrat's views than just the 440-page report in and of itself. democrats want that. they want that testimony. they want it to be public. that's what they are going form. the question is how far are they willing to go to get there? we don't know the teens that just yet. brianna? >> phil mattingly on the hill. thank you so much. >> the host of "the lead kwnd "and "state of ...