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But it also strikes me someone like mick mulvaney, who wrote this budget by all appearances, genuinely believes in what he's doing. i mean the republicans who are proposing this, it is not politically popular, and it just seems to me they have affirmatively chosen this because they genuinely believe in the project they are engaged in. >> well, i wouldn't go so -- the answer is yes and no. they believe in it, but it doesn't hurt that the koch brothers, over many, many years, have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars propping up and creating think tanks and all kinds of so-called n...

Cutting pell grants, cutting nutrition programs, very politically unplafopular. but on the other hand, they have unlimited sums of money from the billionaire class behind them to go after -- democrats go after anybody who stands in their way. >> so here's a question then politically in terms of where this goes next. we've had a hard time finding republican who's will talk about the trump budget and defend it. it's not politically popular. you have republican colleagues of yours in the senate saying it's dead on arrival. they also said the same thing about this health care bill that got scored ...

About the president's budget. is it dead on arrival? >> yes. >> you have a lot of benghazis in the making if this became law. >> it will be a catfight here in the congress. >> short and to the point for senators on both sides of the aisle. on the president's new budget proposal to help guide us through the details of it is msnbc's ali velshi. this is, obviously, a wish list. >> yes, night it's the articulation of the government's priorities. let's get to that first part of it. this is winners. these are the places that you're going to see much more investment. the military, border security, la...

>> joining me now, the president and ceo of meals on wheels america, ellie hollander, thank you for coming in. full disclosure, i was a meals on wheels volunteer with my mom growing up in indiana, i was just talking to her about our shared experiences this morning with regard to our volunteer work. what was your reaction when you heard the budget director say your program doesn't work? what was your reaction? >> kate, first of all, thanks for volunteering, and we appreciate that. meals on wheels has enjoyed decades of bicameral, bipartisan support from members of congress. we're not used to be...

For re-election as a senator from vermont and he showed no reservations when it came to attacking his republican opponent. >> john, i think you did say, if i remember correctly, that the ryan budget was quote/unquote, too timid and you would be bolder. did you say that? >> i did. i did. >> and let's be clear, what the ryan budget does is make devastating cuts in virtually every social program. $700 billion over a ten-year program in medicaid, ending medicare as we know it right now, major cuts in pell grants, major cuts in nutrition programs and i have no doubt that that's there as well. there...