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The whole question of picking a special counsel, allowing the deputy attorney general to pick one and to set this whole train running toward him, this prosecution by robert mueller. is this all part of that, this effort to try to ruin and force out as part after obstruction effort the attorney general he put in there because he got this thing going, this prosecution? >> it seems like the anger he has about robert mueller he's taking out on jeff sessions which is why we saw flare ups like we saw today. clearly he is not happy his attorney general is not protecting him. he said as much on televi...

Collusion and also very much possible also on any kind of obstruction effort by the president. he knows everything he can remember and everything that he can remember hearing the president say is now part of his payment to stay out of jail and to keep his son out of jail. he is a frightening witness if you are the president of the united states right now. >> chris, can you stay with us? because i want to go to katy tur. usually this is he her hour, but she was obviously covering the campaign through all of this, the transition. she joins us by phone. the key question so many people are asking ...

Concealed evidence that was relevant to the investigation, that could be interpreted as part of an -- as an obstruction effort on his part that the u.s. attorney might even take into consideration as part of a conspiracy. so, you know, what this evidence -- i mean, i keep coming back to what evidence is he talking about? and what does it show? >> well, and also in terms of how this all plays out for wildstein and his interactions with the u.s. attorney's office, the big question, right, from the u.s. attorney's office perspective is there something prosecutable? if you're going to -- it's not ...

Not sending to michael cohen? >> well, it's quite obvious that he is sending a message that he will pardon him. i understand that he treated him very badly. he had no respect for him. and despite the fact that cohen has said he would take a bullet, i don't think so. i don't think he'll take prison. and so when people talk about him flipping, i think it just drives the president crazy. and he is sending him a message surely that don't worry, i'm going take care of you. and he has demonstrated that he will pardon. now what he has done? pardoned at least two people, arpaio and scooter libby. so y...