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Other side of the obstruction question. what has replaced don mcgahn? >> well, i mean, again in that report the thing that is so striking is that there are people who are constantly saving the president from himself. frankly, in an effort to save themselves they kind of inadvertently help -- >> right, we should explain that. if you think the president's committing obstruction of justice and you stay and help him, you too are legally exposed for committing -- you are part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice. it is not all benevolent. >> right. it is 100% self-interested but it had the effect of...

In the mueller report. right? there's more information that they have. they were able to put this in this document. they went out publicly. it's a question of why we didn't see this before especially because it seems to lead to the obstruction question. it does not change the fact robert mueller did not make a decision on obstruction. he knew this before he made that decision and then it, of course, allowed the attorney general to make the decision he did. but i think the question we all have is who is this person in congress really? >> and doug, very quickly, to you, a lot of people were doin...

That he repeated no collusion half a dozen times, right from the president's script. yes, barr is someone who at least at this point seems willing to trade the credibility he earned in his previous decades in government in order to curry favor with donald trump. >> ashley, you read the mueller report, the second volume and don mcghan just emerges as, if nothing else, deeply conflicted. loyal to the institution of the office of white house counsel, to the office and the prerogatives of the office of the presidency, but really a human -- a gargoyle is the wrong description, a human railroad trac...

>> from how i know mueller works when he was director of the fbi, he papers the file very well. i would specific somewhere in a footnote or appendix to his report we will see his thought processes why he didn't do this. it will be recorded and discussions with rosenstein will be memorialized and will come out on discussions on the hill. if you're told this repeatedly and why the public needs to see this report, if mueller was told emphatically by the president's attorney, we will plead the fifth amendment on self-incrimination if you insist on a grand jury subpoena or in person interview, the ...

Investigation, where the boundaries were and how much time they took to look at whether there was obstruction at the a.g. level. every minute that goes by leaves suspicions on the table i think they'd be well served to clear. >> who do you think should testify before congress about this? would you like to see robert mueller in addition to the attorney general? >> i'd like to see robert mueller, rod rosenstein and attorney general barr at the table subject to questioning. >> do you think there's any way lindsey graham will let that happen? >> if he doesn't, he's just taken himself out of the lo...