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Ability to govern domestically and conduct foreign affairs and cites a 1982 law in making legal point on the obstruction question. the law was superseded by a new version passed by congress. sprinkled throughout are themes that mirror public attacks on the investigation and its key actors, in essence a warning to mueller that there will be bruising political and legal battles if he decides to test whether he can force the president to testify. what jumped out at you the most in terms of it is an aggressive legal strategy and political message as well? >> i think there are arguments in terms of...

Balked at that last year and this year taken an extraordinary step. >> i want to zero in that you mentioned which people may have forgotten. he tried to file it and not sign the part that certified the contents were true. is that right? >> exactly. it's kind of like you know, having your fingers crossed behind your back or something while you're signing it. >> it's a real tell. >> for anyone that would be bad. we're talking about the president of the united states. someone should be above all of this reproach. >> i want to ask about another question about the criminal inquiry into the presiden...

Having your fingers crossed behind your back or something while you're signing it. >> it's a real tell. >> for anyone that would be bad. we're talking about the president of the united states. someone should be above all of this reproach. >> i want to ask about another question about the criminal inquiry into the president of the united states that comes from the president's lawyer rudy guiliani. rudy guiliani is telling people now today that he was told by someone on mueller's team that mueller doesn't plan to indict trump because of doj rules. that's what rudy guiliani says. you're very fami...

Authorities that this would not constitute. others say it could. those authorities aren't unlimited and you can't use it to impede an investigation. but, again, john dowd denies that he ever had these discussions. >> yes, so she mentioned it and without getting into the specifics about obstruction of justice, let's keep it simple. why would there be conversations of pardons if there was no wrongdoing. shouldn't the the president at least want to find that out first? >> look, that is the interesting question here. i think everyone's getting hung up on his pardon authority, which all legal schol...

He was so important bannon said i want to keep rick gates around. and it surprised people that rick gates stuck around the campaign after paul manafort was gone but he did stick around and played an important role inside the campaign. so if there's somebody who has information related to collusion, possibly collusion, conspiracy and possibly conspiracy, bannon doesn't know what happened firsthand before he got there, manafort doesn't know what happened after he left. rick gates knows both sides of that wall. and that makes him, on the question of collusion, not as much of the obstruction quest...