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Point. i mean, there really is no way to isolate that dossier in the hillary clinton camp. what do you make of this idea that paul manafort was, a, advising the trump campaign or at least trying to, and still talking to them after he himself was under scrutiny? >> well, i think you see from everyone in trump's circles over the last circumstances months, effort to deflect and obstruct. this falls probably more in the category of deflect as ken reporting, kudos for the story, coming up with this alternative narrative. it's all about alternative narratives. i think as you get into the obstruction...

Hillary clinton camp. what do you make of this idea that paul manafort was, a, advising the trump campaign or at least trying to and still talking to them after he himself was under scrutiny? >> i think you see from everyone in trump's circles over the last six months efforts to deflect and obstruct. this falls probably more under the kov categories of deflect as ken reported and kudos for the story about trump trying to come up with this alternative narratives for this story. it's all about alternative narratives. i think as you get into the obstruction side, conversations that manafort has w...

Tomb. they are not talking to reporters. they are not leaking. they're not putting things out there. on the obstruction side of this equation which, you know, mcgann obviously is a bright man who values his future. so he's going sto escape from the -- to escape from the radiation area. >> rick, you're talking about the conversation that rudy giuliani had on meet the press and he said this is the mueller team. that is leaking the information for the "new york times" report. you are saying that mcgann and trum trump they don't speak very often which is consistent with the "new york times" as wel...

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