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And taxes to support the population that needs to be served? >> so that says to me, what you're saying there is obamacare functionally is dead because financially it's not sustainable? >> it is in a death spiral. >> the ceo of aetna on february 15 saying obamacare was in a death spiral. that was welcome news to republicans who want to kill obamacare and who jumped on the death spiral talking point. >> the ceo of aetna, another large insurance carrier, said that obamacare is in a death spiral. his words. >> the ceo of aetna said it's in a death spiral. those aren't our words, those are his word...

Aetna had been trying to merge with rival humana and they threatened to pull out of the exchanges if the obama justice department did not approve the merger. don't take my word for it. a federal judge, in blocking that merger, pointed out aetna's actions and its motives. "aetna tried to leverage its participation in the exchanges for favorable treatment from doj regarding the proposed merger. aetna's ceo bertolini's deposition aetna's counsel stated that if aetna was not happy with the results of an upcoming meeting regarding the merger, we're just going to pull out of all of the exchanges." t...

That's the ceo of one of america's leading health insurance companies, aetna, said this a couple weeks ago. >> here is what they are not telling you which is the context in which the aetna ceo said that. aetna had been trying to merge with rival humana and they threatened to pull out of the exchanges if the obama justice department did not approve the merger. don't take my word for it. a federal judge, in blocking that merger, pointed out aetna's actions and its motives. "aetna tried to leverage its participation in the exchanges for favorable treatment from doj regarding the proposed merger. ...

So there isn't enough money in the aca today as it's structured even with its fees and taxes to support the population that needs to be served? >> so that says to me, what you're saying there is obamacare functionally is dead because financially it's not sustainable? >> it is in a death spiral. >> the ceo of aetna on february 15 saying obamacare was in a death spiral. that was welcome news to republicans who want to kill obamacare and who jumped on the death spiral talking point. >> the ceo of aetna, another large insurance carrier, said that obamacare is in a death spiral. his words. >> the c...

Plan for additional business efficiencies should our deal ultimately be blocked." now, it's also true aetna had been losing money in the new exchanges, but it must have been expecting that to change. as late as july 19, 2016, the company was still planning to expand its footprint to as many as 20 states. but, after the justice department sued aetna to block thmergerith humana, aetna announced it would cut its participation in the exchanges from 15 states to four. and that's when its ceo subsequently unleashed the death spiral remark. joining me now, congresswoman karen bass of california. cong...