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Recognition amongst a wide variety of folks that the war on drugs has been a failure. we have an overcriminalization problem in america. and a mass incarceration epidemic where we have 5% of the world's population, and 25% of the world's incarcerated individuals. as you know, chris, we incarcerate more people in this nati nation, 2.2 million, more than any other country in the world that's outrageous and a scandal. and finally, congress is doing something about it. >> what they're doing in terms of the scale they're talking about, the vast majority of people behind bars in the u.s. are in stat...

A lot of people are scratching their heads, how could something decent come out of this congress? what is your answer to them? >> sometimes good things do happen here in washington, d.c. and it's been a phenomenal journey, a coalition of the unusual suspects, democrats and republicans, progressives and conservatives. people on the left and on the right. the aclu on the one hand, the koch brothers, and jared kushner. there's now a consensus recognition amongst a wide variety of folks that the war on drugs has been a failure. we have an overcriminalization problem in america. and a mass incarcer...

Favor of bipartisan legislation for criminal justice. it's called the first step reform act. there were democrats there, republicans there. they clearly want to do something about allowing prisoners who get out of prison to have a second chance. this is a serious move the president says and he wants to work together with democrats to do something about this. what's your reaction? >> well, it's a very positive step in the right direction. the first step act is actually legislation in the house where i was the lead democratic sponsor. as you know, wolf, the lead republican sponsor was doug colli...

Assistance in getting that bill through the senate. >> it's bipartisan when it comes to congress. how about the president's base. how do you interpret that? >> he has used law and order rhetoric that is racialized in several instances. in going after folks, often african-americans, the nfl players being a classic example. to energize his base in a manner that is incredibly divisive. i do think that jared kushner, the president's senior adviser is authentically committed to to the notion of dealing with our overcriminalization problem in america. hopefully he can prevail upon the president and ...