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As you have said in the initial quote that you just read, he is not what is called a believer in the climate change science. >> do you think that he has read the report or even a summary? >> i think that he is aware of what the report says, and whether he has read it page by page, we can probably guess perhaps not, but he has been briefed on it. he tends to take the briefings in oral form, you know, pictures, and graphics and videos as opposed to poring over the written words of documents. >> and there were a number of blank spaces, if you l and the virtual blank spaces in the interview where ...

>> well, right. it means they don't vn -- have an affirmative defense of any type, and call a witness or two, it is going to be weak. >> and you are saying that the attorneys are laying groundwork for a par ddon from the preside? >> yes, and manafort is looking for a sentence that for a 60-year-old man could be the end of him. and so we are looking at possibly cocan operating or waiting for the pardon. the president with the last few tweets on manafort is saying that he is being treated so unfairly, and this weird -- >> we will put it up on the screen. >> and so what that is going to enable th...

If talk is just talk, i say talk is cheap. >> and now the "new york times" is exploring this question, can trump pardon himself. joining me now is charlie savage. also nick ackerman. charlie, i want to start with you, can the president par ddon. >> a question with no answer. no court has ever been able to weigh in on this question. we have had legal speculation on it. it would be a conflict of interest. some say there is nothing in the constitution that says he can't. >> so this has only been tested one or twice in america history,