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Jute -- saying this beforehand, because rudy giuliani is on tape, talking to georgia electors, saying that there was fraud there. this is something where it intentionally is quite significant in terms of legal exposure, that rudy giuliani faces and goes forward. >> michael, one of the aspects here that i think is verified and not even disputed, the pardon process itself being run entirely parallel to the normal pardon process, which goes to the department of justice, in the allegation, the civil complaint. he says specifically, don't go through that, because it's fully-able. it's definitely tr...

Investigate. you have a rather finite group of people you can look into. you can look at the people who got pardons, and ask them if they paid anyone, and when i think there were 73 pardons given in the closing days of the trump presidency, it seems like to me the follow up on this is not complicated for the fbi, and i don't think it's too late. i think they need to be looking at who paid for what, especially in light of this allegation that mirrors what "the times" reported two years ago. >> claire mentions two things you have done reporting on. arpaio pardon and the process that gets corrupt...

Somewhat intended pardon process, unlike other states if not a unilateral power of the governor he's going to depend on recommendation of a pardon board. the summit there is politica space for people in texas, particularly, to make thei voices heard about whether the think this is inappropriate us of the power >> i think that space exists and it's incredibly importan to defend that space for us no as it exists i think those protesters are now contending with th governor was tried to chok whatever they might do in th future to influence him or t influence other members of his party. that's one ...

Degrees, they are engaged in community work. in the case of the woman who was convicted of second degree murder of her abusive husband, the trial judge in that case didn't permit her to offer all of that evidence and in her own defense. so this is recognition that the pardon process is meant to be used for justice, and for mercy. and it is such a sharp contrast to the former guy, who dangled pardons that people who he thought were at risk of offering evidence the federal authorities that could potentially incriminate him? it takes a very refreshing use of the pardon and the way that it is inte...

Sentences, and they've gone on to do really important things. they've gotten college degrees. they're engaged in community work. in the case of the woman who was convicted of second degree murder of her abusive husband, the trial judge in that case didn't permit her to offer that evidence in in her own defense. so, this is a recognition that the pardon process is meant to be used for justice and for mercy. and it's such a sharp contrast to the former guy, who dangled pardons of people who he thought were at risk of offering evidence to federal authorities that could potentially incriminate him...